tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post7335375645382501205..comments2023-10-11T04:09:53.564-07:00Comments on materfamilias writes: Too Depressing for Words? But Let's Try, Shall We?materfamiliashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-90703123923657148282013-09-04T18:52:38.073-07:002013-09-04T18:52:38.073-07:00Thanks so much, Tamera, for taking time to read an...Thanks so much, Tamera, for taking time to read and to comment so kindly. materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-4883671404112021752013-09-04T17:10:42.561-07:002013-09-04T17:10:42.561-07:00I so appreciate the honesty... Ie... the humanity ...I so appreciate the honesty... Ie... the humanity in your writings. i believe it is in such shadings... our deepest connections are often made.<br /><br />xoxoTamera Beardsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00855427513744644731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-45150143077834749022013-08-22T16:25:48.743-07:002013-08-22T16:25:48.743-07:00Oh Tiffany, thank you so much for mustering up the...Oh Tiffany, thank you so much for mustering up the energy and courage to post this. I don't know why it should help to have company in sadness -- shouldn't I want the whole world to be happy? -- but it does. Not that I want you to suffer depression, but it's encouraging to know that others move through episodes as well, and that some of the techniques I use can and do work for others as well. <br />But my mother's struggle with depression never led her to attempt suicide -- that must have been so traumatic, and I can see how your daughter's presence there would thorougly complicate your response. All these threads that tangle back through our lives, back through generations.<br />You don't write like a narcissist, I must say. . . .and from the snippets you've divulged, I'd say you've got considerable justification for anger (and sadness), but also that you've made a life with much support and kindness and wisdom and joy. Take care.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-56580661748982323742013-08-22T16:08:31.786-07:002013-08-22T16:08:31.786-07:00I have been thinking for days about posting here b...I have been thinking for days about posting here but hesitated. I'm inspired by the honesty of your post, and the comments. I have suffered from depression since my teens. I have good times and bad times, and I can avoid medication if I remember to exercise, meditate and do things that are not for me (the word 'serve' sounds too, well, servile, I suppose). Doing all those things doesn't stop the episodes, but keeps me on a more even keel than I would be otherwise. Four years ago, my mother went through a massive bout of depression and attempted suicide. We had invited her to stay with us (she lives in Asia) because we knew she was ill. I found her, with my brother. My daughter (8 years old at the time) had to hold the door open for the ambulance guys. Despite suffering the same illness myself, I still have so much anger in me about that. I feel guilty that I feel more anger than empathy - and then I wonder whether I'm as fundamentally narcissistic as my mother. It's difficult ...Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-89981531400144920242013-08-21T10:26:13.873-07:002013-08-21T10:26:13.873-07:00I understood the context of/and your advice/respon...I understood the context of/and your advice/response. I can only imagine how I would respond to others' depression after such a tragic and traumatic loss. Right now, I'm holding my breath watching someone very close going through withdrawal from SSRIs in preparation for (hoped-for) pregnancy. It's all quite scary territory -- I do think that speaking out is important. I also think we might all expand our understanding of a range of moods and emotions -- there's much social pressure to be easy and happy and temperate, and not all of us can manage this all of the time.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-42440463768611562982013-08-21T07:22:27.489-07:002013-08-21T07:22:27.489-07:00Did not mean to imply your path would be same as h...Did not mean to imply your path would be same as hers! And, before the end, there were many years of the exact intermittent effects you describe. I now see friends with similar depressions greatly helped by either drug or other therapies. My tendency is to panic a little when someone I care for says they are struggling, because everything seemed "better" for her until one day, impulsively, she took her life. Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-8640724471514289772013-08-20T07:19:18.002-07:002013-08-20T07:19:18.002-07:00Thanks for taking time to write this, Mardel, so c...Thanks for taking time to write this, Mardel, so close to your own deep, deep sadness. I, too, would probably extend the biblical year -- even watching girlfriends survive the death of a marriage, it's become obvious to me that these events have a longer trajectory than we might easily imagine.<br />The comments are astute and wise and kind aren't they? And I really like Kristin's attention to the fear with which we face extremes, as well as the value they do pose. Deep sadness, grief, anger, they're so uncomfortable, painful, to experience or to witness, and we want to hide our faces. But yes, "sometimes I think we have to let the emotions roll and wash over us before we can actually isolate and integrate our feelings with our more rational responses." Thank you.<br />And if hugs are clichés, as a few commenters besides you have worried, they are the very best of clichés and will never be scorned by me!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-37633212819654732052013-08-19T06:34:44.601-07:002013-08-19T06:34:44.601-07:00Oh my, what a resonant post, followed by astute, w...Oh my, what a resonant post, followed by astute, wise, and kind comments. As Kristin said extremes are scary and we are not particularly comfortable with them. But they happen. There is so much going on in your life and grief is an underlying current but I am sure not the only one, pressures from work, family issues, so many things can bubble up and carry us away. I think there is something to the "biblical year" for grief, but I think it is actually longer: from what I read most people need longer even if they allow themselves to feel what needs to be felt, to rise, to sink, to experience. And this rising and sinking, especially the sinking is not looked upon kindly in modern life. But you are climbing out of the holes, not sinking into the mire, and that is good.<br /><br /><br />Having recently lost my spouse I think of this a lot. I am in some ways in a similar boat, and in someways not. I have always tended to be one of volatile emotions, of great joys and deep sadnesses, tempered by long periods of quiet peacefulness. I struggled with this a great deal when I was young, felt that it was somehow not "right", as my tendencies toward impulsiveness and quick decision-making were not appreciated. As a result I managed to repress this side of my nature for many years only to be caught up in rolling waves of tears and anger during the years that my husband suffered from dementia: Tears of loss and grief and sadness, tears spilling forth out of unacknowledged anger, tears not just for the loss of the other, but tears for myself and the bits of ourselves that we don't always acknowledge until they rise up snarling and angry, tears that seem to pour forth for no apparent reason. I have come to realize that this was part of the process of grief, and that I was simply surprised by grief while I was witnessing the slow loss of the one I love. I think you will eventually roll out of it, magically or not, but with time. Sometimes I think we have to let the emotions roil and wash over us before we can actually isolate and integrate our feelings with our more rational responses. Ugly but necessary. <br /><br />A cliché perhaps, but many hugs, for both the good and the bad times.Mardelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850551308931710502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-80403656334362523332013-08-18T19:35:01.299-07:002013-08-18T19:35:01.299-07:00Sorry this post stirred up discomfort in you -- I ...Sorry this post stirred up discomfort in you -- I think so many of us struggle, from time to time, and yet it's not so easy to talk about. Aren't the reader responses here marvellous?!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-25354090519086101232013-08-18T19:34:14.240-07:002013-08-18T19:34:14.240-07:00I either didn't know, or had forgotten, that s...I either didn't know, or had forgotten, that sad loss of your sister. Luckily, so far, my depression seems to pass within a few days, perhaps not a true clinical depression although troubling enough to me. And so far, I feel that I can manage, although I really count on my husband's support. I did think it was worth talking about, though, simply to try to tackle the shame factor. (although I experience self-reproach more than shame, but perhaps they're pretty closely related). Thanks for the hugs!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-15334013208704112392013-08-18T13:46:37.325-07:002013-08-18T13:46:37.325-07:00Hello Mater - I don't have anything much to ad...Hello Mater - I don't have anything much to add here, even though much of what you say is very familiar to me (I read it yesterday and couldn't comment, it was a little too close for comfort on first reading). It's so amazing that you can open up in this way and I hope that this act, as well as the wonderful responses, has given you some clarity and comfort. Patriciahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05504513116873595049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-85529960351029635542013-08-18T09:04:16.966-07:002013-08-18T09:04:16.966-07:00Late to this post as have had a tech holiday so wa...Late to this post as have had a tech holiday so want you to know I'm thinking of you. Grateful you are not taking these bouts lightly, diminishing them. You know I lost my sister after years of depression, way too young. Various therapies are available that were not, in 1972. Please do not be embarassed or ashamed to avail yourself of them, of whatever helps you... the cost otherwise is simply too high, to you and to others. Depression is nothing to be ashamed of. Many hugs.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-43910254734506229222013-08-18T05:44:51.326-07:002013-08-18T05:44:51.326-07:00Thanks for breaking your commenting fast to add th...Thanks for breaking your commenting fast to add these kind words. You're so right that the dark patches make the golden ones that much more precious. . . materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-42188048767405359052013-08-17T19:03:49.384-07:002013-08-17T19:03:49.384-07:00i've been lurking more than commenting recentl...i've been lurking more than commenting recently but just had to stop by to say, i hear you and understand. the soft tide of melancholia washes in and out unbidden. and somehow we do come out on the other side with a little more self-understanding, a little more strength - the sun always seems brighter and the garden seems more magical. keep believing.pomomamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08338550638937829078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-60281953638638912202013-08-17T16:57:58.815-07:002013-08-17T16:57:58.815-07:00I think your first sentence is key. I don't th...I think your first sentence is key. I don't think it is realistic to be happy always, but there's not much room to talk about our sadness. And fair enough, I don't want to be overly burdened by those who focus only on sorrows. But the (perceived, at least) need to present strength and positivity is its own burden, obviously.<br />(I'm almost ready to give in on "relatable" -- my students use it so often that it must be useful -- it's going to make it into all but the stodgiest dictionaries before long -- I must admit I'm unlikely ever to love it, given that I only have 3 or 4 decades left!) Thanks for the wise (despite your disclaimer) and warm thoughts.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-2413245558824004682013-08-17T16:55:14.332-07:002013-08-17T16:55:14.332-07:00We should start a Slow Healing movement. . . and y...We should start a Slow Healing movement. . . and yes, isn't there a wealth of wisdom here. I feel so much grace.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-75944610646206715502013-08-17T16:54:30.548-07:002013-08-17T16:54:30.548-07:00Oh, Marsha, there are some wise words here. There ...Oh, Marsha, there are some wise words here. There are blessings in getting older, knowing ourselves, and having a rich resource of remembered wisdom. Thank you.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-7324532707717272152013-08-17T16:48:14.346-07:002013-08-17T16:48:14.346-07:00I'm glad Kristin put the comment back. It is a...I'm glad Kristin put the comment back. It is an intriguing one. Yes, extremes. So much to think about. I am glad you are feeling better.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15711792521348799922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-39579314533676724742013-08-17T15:31:21.733-07:002013-08-17T15:31:21.733-07:00We're expected to be happy or at least content...We're expected to be happy or at least content most of the time, but how realistic is that? I haven't yet lost my mother and I dread the day when I do. Too much loss is like having your roots cut out from beneath you. Can you ever recover? I think it's fine to be sad and I don't see why you need to carry on - although I suspect you're the sort of person whom many rely on so you feel it's your job. It's the female dilemma. I'm so grateful to you for writing your post - it was raw and honest and completely relatable (sorry if that's not a word). Anyway, I have no wisdom or advice to offer. Just know that you have my sympathy, empathy, and very warm thoughts.L'age moyenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03297717031402619963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-67632653164466071352013-08-17T14:21:59.756-07:002013-08-17T14:21:59.756-07:00There's so much wisdom in the other comments. ...There's so much wisdom in the other comments. Lots to think about. <br /><br />Healing can take so much time and in our fast-paced culture, we ignore that, thinking that we need to get on with life too soon. Be easy on yourself. Your self awareness is positive. Lorriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03653026442945027184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-37414119317493739302013-08-17T12:44:28.339-07:002013-08-17T12:44:28.339-07:00Your nuanced and resoundingly accurate description...Your nuanced and resoundingly accurate description of your recent feelings and experiences (I say "accurate" because I trust you to speak honestly, and because what you say resonates so clearly with my own life) is very much appreciated. It reminds me of someone I knew when I was in my early twenties, a classmate in her fifties who didn't let her tears stop her from speaking her piece to the group, and whose graceful explanatory words remain with me: "Who knows where tears come from?" They demand acknowledgement, but not necessarily analysis. For me, depression is like tears in this respect - it's not there to be solved, but lived through, and no apology is necessary. I get a visit from "the black dog" once in a while, often when I have chosen not to express profound anger, but now I recognize it and know it will pass (this is something another wise older woman told me when I was young, and it has brought comfort for many years). I remain the captain of my ship even during the storm, when I control nothing and must wait for the rain and wind to abate. Like you, I no longer have my parents living, and it would be untrue to say that there is no fear when I contemplate my own later years (Mom had Alzheimer's, which oddly became a blessing as it unlocked much that had been withheld for 80 years). But, also like you, I am not my mom, and I already know that my chosen attitude can shape my experience even if it can't change the biochemical/physical/emotional reality that confronts me. So, I wish you courage and I emphasize that you are already far ahead of the game.Marshahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14035642478179187618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-77666396527366272522013-08-17T11:36:03.446-07:002013-08-17T11:36:03.446-07:00Thanks for this -- I just checked and found it on ...Thanks for this -- I just checked and found it on Netflix. It will make a nice break from Breaking Bad!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-62104718554984858312013-08-17T11:35:23.639-07:002013-08-17T11:35:23.639-07:00I think your mother was very wise -- and you'r...I think your mother was very wise -- and you're right that these days there seems to be a stopwatch governing our mourning. Perhaps this is why grief spills over when we last expect it. I would add, though, that not all my sadness has to do with my mother's death although that's the most obvious and most recent trigger. <br />Thanks so much for adding your voice here -- it's been quite wonderful to discover all this wisdom in readers I didn't know I had. . . materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-63202012627611767402013-08-17T11:33:10.815-07:002013-08-17T11:33:10.815-07:00What a thoughtful response. ou're careful to s...What a thoughtful response. ou're careful to separate your experience from mine, and you give me some credit for my own strength, you know that I'm getting through this, but that I, like you, value putting it out there for the sake of honesty. (and yes, at the same time I can't stand the idea of being too dramatic or upsetting people)<br /><br />So glad you posted this, after first retracting it, as I believe it's worth others reading as well. I do think that extremeness is scary. I also think that at times, despite my practical core, my pragmatic coping self, I can move close to the abyss. And I think it is good for people to see your analysis of this, to know that this can be okay. I see a huge rush to medicate or treat or whatever therapy anytime anyone bumps into hints of extremity. In fact, I find that some self-knowledge, some endurance, some exercise, bubble baths, and chocolate, and I can get through. The grief, I hope and trust, does "magically" disentangle itself. As for the fear of ending up like my mom, I don't think they've found the SSRI yet that will erase that one. . . .but I'm thinking seriously about what Lettys says (see above). . . <br /><br />Thank you for taking the time to write this AND for posting it. . . twice! xo<br />materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-87720365359804333602013-08-17T09:59:29.925-07:002013-08-17T09:59:29.925-07:00With some sense of cosmic synchronicity, I just wa...With some sense of cosmic synchronicity, I just watched today 'L'amour fou' which opened with footage of Yves San Laurent discussing his depressive episodes and quoting Proust!<br /><br />LettysAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com