tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post4472204061005785793..comments2023-10-11T04:09:53.564-07:00Comments on materfamilias writes: Here Comes the Weekend -- What Are You Up To?materfamiliashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-75309305512042686452016-07-03T08:17:07.580-07:002016-07-03T08:17:07.580-07:00I'm so sorry, Penny. I know how hard I am find...I'm so sorry, Penny. I know how hard I am finding it, to integrate this new material reality into my understanding of the world (because I believe the referendum is about so much more than a British vote). I can only imagine how tough it must be right in the midst. What you say about racism resonates: I'm sure many Leave voters are not racist, perhaps even claim to abhor racism, but I think we all need to pay attention: Do not get into bed with the wrong people. . . Just. Don't. <br />I've gone back and read your lovely comments on earlier posts, but may not manage to get back to respond to each one. Thanks so much for taking the time to leave them.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-20223656504409161382016-07-02T09:35:08.361-07:002016-07-02T09:35:08.361-07:00I am coming very late to this post and there has b...I am coming very late to this post and there has been a lot of heat generated in your comments here Frances. My immediate response to your post was gratitude; thank you, for being interested, for caring enough about a country far away from where you live to care, and to realise the enormity of the result of the referendum. I am devestated by the result. Like Linda, above, I dread another Independence Referendum, though I don't think Nicola Sturgeon's european tour has been taken very seriously so far. Aside from that potential future horror I am deeply distressed by the result. Britain has been changed for ever by the result, and I think a referendum with such far reaching consequences should have had to garner a greater differential than 4 %. I believe there was an assumption that 'Remain' would win through, even by those voting to leave. I think many people used their vote to register discontent with the EU, more as a protest vote, thinking that 'Remain' would still win. I also think that the 'Leavers' are living in a fantasy land where rosy cheeked youths pick apples and cheerful cockneys sweep the streets. The fact is that our service industries in the UK rely heavily (very heavily) on foreign labour, I am thinking particularly of Poles, whose work ethic is outstanding. I realise that not all 'leave' voters are racist, of course people have a variety of reasons, but the horrific fact remains that many of the 'leave' voters are racist, or had/have a racist element in their desire to leave, thinking that it will somehow enable us to duck out of accepting immigrants. It is the small mindedness, the pettiness, the inwardness of the 'leave' result that really distresses me. All these days later I am still in shock. XPennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03174324346613155013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-28509480863734119802016-06-29T15:57:55.022-07:002016-06-29T15:57:55.022-07:00I've seen those stats, Duchesse (see below in ...I've seen those stats, Duchesse (see below in convo with Jean). Diana, I'm not sure it's fair to criticize a 36% turnout in such a young age group, considering -- I'd say they're doing well to get started, and I hope they're not discouraged by the apparent lack of effect of their exercising the franchise. Mine don't whine at the old, although I'm not saying none do. I just think we want to be very careful about generalising about groups, and I'm especially not keen on making young voters feel defensive.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-22550814875538288412016-06-29T15:53:10.044-07:002016-06-29T15:53:10.044-07:00Thanks for the recommendation, Marie, although I m...Thanks for the recommendation, Marie, although I may save this for when my spirit feels more resilient. <br />materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-27385863953139552702016-06-29T15:52:17.543-07:002016-06-29T15:52:17.543-07:00I wish we might all feel safe enough for small cou...I wish we might all feel safe enough for small courages, at least. . . I suspect that if we aired our little fears and sadnesses more regularly and with more trust that they might be addressed, there's a chance they wouldn't have to build to defensive pugilism and posturing. At least, that's my hope...materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-37339778856896644822016-06-29T15:50:22.172-07:002016-06-29T15:50:22.172-07:00Yes, I love having friends around the world, and t...Yes, I love having friends around the world, and this is a good reminder of why blogging is well worth the effort. We must keep looking for hope and comfort, and trying to widen our circles rather than draw them smaller.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-56129579656676500392016-06-29T08:00:20.179-07:002016-06-29T08:00:20.179-07:00It took courage to speak honestly to an issue that...It took courage to speak honestly to an issue that might not be supported by all your readers. Democracies need that courage, particularly now, when the level of discourse between opposing sides can be frightening. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-37243695129035413492016-06-28T03:18:10.462-07:002016-06-28T03:18:10.462-07:00Dearest Mater - I'm not at all surprised that ...Dearest Mater - I'm not at all surprised that you felt the way that you did about this wretched referendum. The ramifications extend well beyond our shores and beyond Europe. But, lacking a plan, the protagonists apparently never considered that. Thank goodness, therefore, for the comfort of small people - and for friends around the world.writing not drowninghttp://www.60goingon16.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-29409320586825645522016-06-27T16:12:29.059-07:002016-06-27T16:12:29.059-07:00Between the Donald and the fires and the heat in y...Between the Donald and the fires and the heat in your state, I'm surprised you could sleep at all, even without Brexit. But I'm glad your weekend turned out well after all, and I'm so pleased to hear that you enjoy the blog -- you're very welcome!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-11283752675764433452016-06-27T16:10:44.071-07:002016-06-27T16:10:44.071-07:00I hope, as well, that perhaps this will be a wake-...I hope, as well, that perhaps this will be a wake-up call, but I'm fearful and sad as well. You must feel particularly upset given that you work with immigrant children and know their vulnerabilities and their hopes -- as well as how much they can contribute. materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-67085649381911976882016-06-27T16:08:04.613-07:002016-06-27T16:08:04.613-07:00Thank you so much, Elle, for your kindness. I thin...Thank you so much, Elle, for your kindness. I think that's what hurt, honestly, that I was expressing sadness and instead of commiseration I got arguments. That's not really a fair assessment on my part, as there were many readers who shared similar feelings or who at least patted me sympathetically (and metaphorically/virtually) on my arm. . . And the ones who did otherwise were, I know, hurting in their own way. . . I love your fantasy -- I think we all need more spaces where we can be listened to and where we must, in turn, listen. I valued most of all in my years teaching university literature classes that I was able, sometimes, to create such spaces. <br />Hmmm, let's not call it a fantasy. Perhaps a vision. . . As I settle into my new urban life, I'm going to be working towards a social life such as yours, and perhaps trying to imagine ways that could accommodate your monthly conversations. Maybe we'd even blow bubbles after dessert ;-) (No fiddle-playing though, nor fires. . . )materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-88247808682953232382016-06-27T15:59:33.804-07:002016-06-27T15:59:33.804-07:00I didn't particularly think I was talking poli...I didn't particularly think I was talking politics, simply noting my response to something in the news. . . Like you, I feel badly for a while, but so much goodness here I'm bouncing back xomaterfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-47255161935230336602016-06-27T14:10:42.847-07:002016-06-27T14:10:42.847-07:00only a third of the young 'bothered' to vo...only a third of the young 'bothered' to vote.<br />That is interesting.<br />Since they whine at the old, for turning out.Diana Studerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12286066768376135880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-89113352665336669632016-06-27T13:24:13.420-07:002016-06-27T13:24:13.420-07:00Oh, I had a difficult time sleeping Friday into Sa...Oh, I had a difficult time sleeping Friday into Saturday...fitful, wakeful, with Brexit and the Donald on my mind when I went to bed. Or.. maybe it was just the California heat and our fires..not sure. However, in the end my weekend was both productive and relaxing...the best kind. <br /><br />P.S. I indeed enjoy your blog...Thank You!!<br /><br />Renee in Northern CaliforniaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-84780315135044374432016-06-27T11:38:14.326-07:002016-06-27T11:38:14.326-07:00I love Britian. It is so close to my heart. I have...I love Britian. It is so close to my heart. I have been following the campaign and was shocked by the result of the referendum. I cannot believe some of the language and attitudes shining through during this campaign. The nationalism and anger towards immigrants is frightening. I hope to God this will not be as bad for my beloved United Kingdom as some says. I hope it is some kind of wake-up Call for them that can help them work through the internal problems that has given so many people in Britain no hope. But, I fear not. It is so sad for that beautiful country. (Just needed to get that of my chest. Hope you don't mind more politics)<br />Beautiful photos. Made me want to blow bubbles.givihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01078585999582077146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-18140926359767536112016-06-27T10:42:59.873-07:002016-06-27T10:42:59.873-07:00I am coming back here from today's post to com...I am coming back here from today's post to comment. I'm so sorry--and astonished--that your low mood and those those lovely bubbles-across-the-generations images were buried under what?--not an argument, not a discussion. What do we call these exchanges we have, and see, and hear that result in no mutual understanding or clarity? I love "post-factual" as a descriptor. I am a part of several regular gatherings--dinner party, book club, potluck group--as well as a community garden, non-profit fundraising, mentoring, local activism--but nowhere do I find--nor have I created--a place for radically opposing political views to respectfully understand and influence each other. My fantasy is a monthly conversation over a meal where a handful of people with utterly different views genuinely listen to one another. In the meantime, we take pleasure--and solace--where we can, bubbles being a strong contender. And hope that we are not following in Nero's footsteps.Ellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04174162283476551873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-4627668753219265622016-06-27T10:06:59.994-07:002016-06-27T10:06:59.994-07:00ma, among voters, the 18-24 year olds were the hig...ma, among voters, the 18-24 year olds were the highest "Remain" group. See this chart: https://twitter.com/the_dbh/status/746233402290954240/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw<br /><br />though the turnout was low, only 36& in that age group voted. Source:<br />https://twitter.com/SkyData/status/746700869656256512Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-41257113849391944632016-06-27T08:40:41.629-07:002016-06-27T08:40:41.629-07:00I was preparing for my stepmother's birthday p...I was preparing for my stepmother's birthday party, so did not look into the comments here. Wow. Hence, no politics on my blog. I can't bear the rancor. I hope you've recovered - I know when threads get hostile on my blog I feel badly for a while. xoxox.LPChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18209861350905135093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-46345983489518454132016-06-27T08:09:19.920-07:002016-06-27T08:09:19.920-07:00I agree with you. Apart from the political and eco...I agree with you. Apart from the political and economic outcome there is a message contained in this vote. It is not new, we have been hearing it for years in Hungary, the Netherlands, Italy, France, recently in Poland and in my own country,too. The other day a German journalist said he was tired of all those politicians who talk of "worried citizens" (meaning racists and xenophobes) whose "concerns" had to be "taken seriously". He pointed out that, after all, those who are willing to help, to share, to respect others, are still the majority in this country, and what about our worries? He is probably right - there should be much more pressure on politicians to draw a line where Human Rights are concerned. Maybe it is time to step out of our gardens and into the street...Eleonorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-66246343845215026542016-06-27T06:37:27.863-07:002016-06-27T06:37:27.863-07:00I hope you're right, Eleonore. I've read q...I hope you're right, Eleonore. I've read quite a bit about the various possibilities for consequences to unfold -- and of course, you're speaking of specific political consequences, both for the UK itself, and for the EU. (there are other broader social consequences that we may not understand for even longer, I believe, having to do with how politicians conduct themselves, with tolerance for hateful speech, with confidence building among the far right parties of Europe and beyond).<br />So it's very good that we have holidays and friends and coffee -- even if we can't always have sunshine in the garden ;-) Thanks so much for your comment. Enjoy these well-deserved holidays!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-55355749403040042852016-06-27T06:29:49.950-07:002016-06-27T06:29:49.950-07:00Yes, you're right, Smithposts, and I suppose I...Yes, you're right, Smithposts, and I suppose I was naive to think I could express my sadness here without inviting controversy.<br />It could get crowded in our small space, but Donald refugees might get priority ;-) Let's hope it doesn't come to that!<br />Yes to your last paragraph. We do our best to work toward good governance in the ways available to us, but we also have to know when simply to find the goodness -- and bubbles and little kids are a good place to start.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-35087103763894386632016-06-27T06:26:40.934-07:002016-06-27T06:26:40.934-07:00That Benjamin quote is one that leaped out at me f...That Benjamin quote is one that leaped out at me from all the reading I did during the years of my doctorate. Knowing the times it came out of, and knowing his end, makes it both more poignant and more demanding to me, and it seems particularly relevant in these times. I am very worried about what democracy has wrought in the past and what it might again. And I'm not at all convinced that that technologies by which it operates right now are adequate to the task. Thoroughly neglected seems to be an emphasis on careful, well-informed discernment, and surely that is necessary when our systems are so intertwined, so massive, so delicate, really. . . .And yes, you're right in the maelstrom, and we here stare it in the face. We're all holding our breath for this fall's choices.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-37669863348562699962016-06-27T06:21:21.550-07:002016-06-27T06:21:21.550-07:00I'm so sorry, SAndS. I suspect it will take so...I'm so sorry, SAndS. I suspect it will take some time to sort out whether/how much this will affect citizens' senses of identity, where loyalties lie, etc. Take care.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-27126972126089097142016-06-27T06:19:28.403-07:002016-06-27T06:19:28.403-07:00Suz, this is exactly what I thought as well, re th...Suz, this is exactly what I thought as well, re the requirement for turnout and majority required for a convincing mandate, something like the Electoral Reform Referendum we had here in BC which required 60% Yes to change.<br /><br />Didn't make it to Greek Day, but that would have been huge fun. A friend and I went to an Urban Sketchers' Day at the Trans Am Totem instead.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-87021665257426002122016-06-27T06:16:19.727-07:002016-06-27T06:16:19.727-07:00I can only try to imagine how you feel, Linda, wit...I can only try to imagine how you feel, Linda, with two divisive referendums so close together, another one seeming destined to follow. I can't understand how the narrow majority could have been allowed to achieve this. We've been through sovereignty referendums here in Canada with Quebec nationalists wanting to break away, and the razor-thin results of the victory of those who didn't want to separate still makes me queasy. Democracy is not all it's cracked up to be, even less so in an age when voters are not all motivated to research issues carefully but are too easily swayed by rhetoric. <br />Thank you so much for calling me an honorary European -- I love that!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.com