tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post1636792028288297756..comments2023-10-11T04:09:53.564-07:00Comments on materfamilias writes: Monday, Monday -- Of Moods and Friends and The Possibilities of Reaching Outmaterfamiliashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-58781419881216359792017-11-14T15:12:39.017-08:002017-11-14T15:12:39.017-08:00That is really interesting. Is there a "stigm...That is really interesting. Is there a "stigma which damns those who need the solace of company"? I suppose there might be. My own answer seems quite bleak although if we met I don't think you would associate such a word with me. I'm a cheerful, sociable, loving sort of a person. But I do seem to think that eventually we must look death in the eye and be alone. Perhaps that is why I try to live warmly and happily because ultimately that's all you can do. It's an odd realisation that while I think I am profoundly reluctant to judge others, while I would wish to help anyone who rang me at three in the morning, ultimately I would wonder why. There are things that can be helped and there is shit that can't be helped with. Puzzling. Being kind is about all I can be sure of. Elizabeth Musgravehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473705107636868753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-56032554613314422602017-11-14T07:19:58.144-08:002017-11-14T07:19:58.144-08:00You're right, Elizabeth. It's difficult to...You're right, Elizabeth. It's difficult to write the conversation, without the feedback we'd have in person. Although I find that my resolve to share often fades in person which, perhaps is a good thing.<br />While I don't want to presume too much, I do think I know just what you mean, mainly because I seem to feel the same constraints about "bothering" others when I can surely manage a few more hours on my own. I'm not convinced, though, the the "moments of deep sadness and hurt" are always for one of us as "there are for everybody." I think sometimes there can be a desperation that might not be able to manage hanging on those few more hours and I wonder how much my own inability/unwillingness/refusal to ask for that help (I really feel I just couldn't) contributes to a stigma that damns those who need the solace of company. On the other hand, I value a good quiet night's sleep and think there's great worth in a collective unwillingness to disturb anyone's. . . As with so much of life, it's not simple, for me at least. Thanks for being so thoughtful, taking the time to consider the issue and to come back to write into the conversation. materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-49213210795358412222017-11-09T13:59:41.260-08:002017-11-09T13:59:41.260-08:00I have though long and hard before responding to t...I have though long and hard before responding to this as it is hard to convey exactly what I feel and think without the help of the face to face. I'll have a go. There is no one I would ring at three in the morning. I know I am very lucky in my marriage (although like you my marriage can produce moments of profound failure to understand each other) and I am deeply lucky in my children and grandchildren. I have a couple of very good friends and a supportive community. There are moments of deep sadness and hurt for me as there are for everybody but I don't see that there is any purpose or value in breaking anyone else's night when they strike. I know I am very loved and live in return. When the bad night strikes it reminds me that ultimately we are alone, we came in and will go out alone. For me I would not know what the purpose of calling anyone at these times would be. Indeed it would feel to me like pointless self indulgence. Suggesting I would love company and how about coffee in the day, weeping on my husband or exploring sadness with my daughter or my sister are all things I might do in the day. Mostly I deal with the hard times within the confines of my family or with one or two very dear friends, but only in the day! At night I wait until morning. I agree wholeheartedly with mardel's comment about being allowed the full run of emotions. That's not what I mean. Hope you can devine what I do mean!Elizabeth Musgravehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09473705107636868753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-50133584093950249932017-11-03T15:21:43.515-07:002017-11-03T15:21:43.515-07:00There's much that is brave and thoughtful and ...There's much that is brave and thoughtful and true and illuminating about your comment, Mardel, but it's the last paragraph that really grabs me -- yes! I want us to be allowed that full gamut of emotions, the ones so often deemed "negative" as well as the happier ones, and still feel ourselves valued. If it's a dream, it's one worth bringing to life!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-57896716273952669932017-11-03T15:19:39.754-07:002017-11-03T15:19:39.754-07:00You really are supported here, and it's someth...You really are supported here, and it's something more than "just" virtual.... Take care.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-81239806496130748532017-11-03T15:19:12.394-07:002017-11-03T15:19:12.394-07:00Something about the way you articulate this makes ...Something about the way you articulate this makes so much sense, Charlotte. Yes, there's something about that control, or the illusion of it, that reassures even as it isolates. And yes, and thank you for knowing it, I'm ok too ;-)materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-74486098270029200852017-11-03T15:18:07.111-07:002017-11-03T15:18:07.111-07:00From what I've read and heard, both anxiety an...From what I've read and heard, both anxiety and depression respond fairly well to Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. In fact, a number of studies have apparently found it to be as effective as antidepressants in treating mild to moderate depression. As you say, it can't hurt!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-44295615847172588442017-11-03T14:05:10.951-07:002017-11-03T14:05:10.951-07:00I've not gotten through all the comments yet, ...I've not gotten through all the comments yet, but I feel compelled to say something, even though I may want to say something else later.<br /><br />You know that for a few years, for more than a few years, both while my spouse was ill and failing with dementia, and afterwards after he passed away, I lost myself. And that sense of loss was different in each of those situations. I did not call anyone, I even if I wished I could, I wouldn't have been able to bring myself to do it, perhaps fearing too much to be seen as weak, to cause worry. Really, I never want to cause worry, but I suspect that even deeper cause of my reluctance reverts back to my early years, to a childhood where emotion was looked down upon, and a sense, which I can date back to an episode when I was four, that much as I yearned for someone to take care of me, I could count on no one but myself. It has taken me a long time to dig to the root of this, and doing so has been freeing, at least for me.<br /><br /><br />The result is that now I believe I could call someone if I felt I needed to, but I'm not sure who that would be. I'm also not sure I would acknowledge the need. I may have found a root, but I haven't yet been able to free myself of what I self-identify as melancholy but which is probably more of an anxiety/depression mix.<br /><br />Thank you for writing this. I increasingly think it is our secrets, and our shame, and the things we don't bring in to the light that hurts us, and others even more. And I turned off my "do not disturb" long ago. No one calls, but I'd rather be disturbed than not<br /><br /><br />Actually I think I would be more able to call someone now than I was even a few years ago, but I still can't imagine who I would call. I think however that I although I struggle with what I self-identify as melancholy, and it may be depression or anxiety, or a mix, I am fortunate to have never been so lost as to be even close to suicidal.<br /><br />I long for a world where we could all be angry, and sad, and lost and happy, grateful and despairing and all of these things sometimes even simultaneously, or not, because really how we feel has nothing to do with what the world looks like. But of course perhaps I want to live in a dream world.<br />Mardelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04850551308931710502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-91709758159118145812017-11-02T17:23:00.872-07:002017-11-02T17:23:00.872-07:00I’ve come back here to read others’ responses to F...I’ve come back here to read others’ responses to Frances’s open-hearted post and found so many sweet words of support for my husband and me. Thank you, dear strangers. We are walking along the same path, even though we don’t know each others’ names. I feel lifted by your good will. <br /><br />Ann from MissouriAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-14158601894038675142017-11-02T11:48:37.176-07:002017-11-02T11:48:37.176-07:00Apologies that I'm too tired this evening to r...Apologies that I'm too tired this evening to read all the comments before adding my own, so I hope I'm not repeating others. The 3am phonecall and the reason why I too would find it almost impossible to make, is because calling someone at 3am would be my last resort, and as a last resort would mean that I no longer felt able to cope on my own, and therefore I would no longer in Control... And not being in control, or at least the illusion of control over depression, is more terrifying than however else I would be feeling. Not making the 3am phonecall means that I must somehow be ok, or be going to be ok... <br />My heartfelt compassion coming your way. And I know you are ok too :-) xCharlottenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-54044136686203685472017-11-02T10:01:14.338-07:002017-11-02T10:01:14.338-07:00For me it tends to be crushing anxiety rather than...For me it tends to be crushing anxiety rather than depression and it makes me frantic rather than lethargic, but I think the levels of suffering are analogous. And I don't tend to reach out to anyone about it, even my husband, because on some level I know its out of proportion, or at least out of my control. I have many friends/family who have had great experiences with therapy so at some point that probably needs to be on the agenda. Why not, it can't HURT. <br /><br />ceciAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-71023286764633562672017-11-02T06:41:56.045-07:002017-11-02T06:41:56.045-07:00Ah, sorry yesterday was tough. xoxo
3-4 a week is ...Ah, sorry yesterday was tough. xoxo<br />3-4 a week is closer to what I might once-upon-a-time have called a few of those moms-of-little-kids friends, and I miss that sometimes. So glad she was at the other end of the phone 4 times yesterday. . . .materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-46919978639560726632017-11-02T06:39:20.370-07:002017-11-02T06:39:20.370-07:00She sounds like a treasure, your friend, but I sus...She sounds like a treasure, your friend, but I suspect you gave her a gift in allowing her to help, as well, in acknowledging the depth of your friendship, that trust.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-12083832574570506142017-11-02T06:36:39.847-07:002017-11-02T06:36:39.847-07:00Mako, I'm so pleased that you've joined th...Mako, I'm so pleased that you've joined the conversation -- we tend to skew a bit more, ahem, mature here, and I love to expand our demographic, to bring in other voices with different perspectives. Finding you again on Social Media a few years ago was such a delight, although I've been sorry to know how much depression you suffer (such a surprise given what a happy--and ever-so-bright!-- kid you were when I knew you at 6, 7). I'm so impressed at what you can manage despite the anxiety/depression -- kids, fitness, social life-- and your willingness to share here is both courageous and generous. I do think that, given how tough it is for us to reach out in those sunken times, it's so helpful to come across conversations like this and to know that we're not alone -- somehow that knowledge might be part of the self that counters our meanest 3 a.m. inner critics. . . . (and may I repeat my earlier offer to buy you lunch or coffee or a glass or two of whatever next time you're over this way. xo)materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-53463419352163338982017-11-02T06:28:06.937-07:002017-11-02T06:28:06.937-07:00I appreciate some, even much, of what you say here...I appreciate some, even much, of what you say here, Giulia, and I believe there is considerable truth here. It's not the only approach to depression, however, nor am I convinced that depression is always "anger gone underground." A psychoanalytic approach can be dynamically effective for some, but new research suggests that Cognitive Behavioural Therapy can work to modify neural pathways, new awareness into brain chemistry and endocrinology, etc., suggests it's not always necessary or even efficacious to take the "emotional ice pick" to our lives. It sounds as if you have the fortitude for this route and that it is making, or has made, a worthwhile difference for you. materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-78731501870346630222017-11-01T17:04:33.696-07:002017-11-01T17:04:33.696-07:00You're welcome. I understand you. Also, reread...You're welcome. I understand you. Also, rereading, I need to correct. I call my friend 3-4 times/WEEK:). That said, yesterday was a tough one for several reasons and I did call her 4 times. I hate to think of you feeling self-loathing, but, I don't hate all hearing you tell about it.Lisahttp://amidprivilege.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-67543410141915915572017-11-01T13:34:51.379-07:002017-11-01T13:34:51.379-07:00Regarding my friend - she hadn't been hearing ...Regarding my friend - she hadn't been hearing from me through emails as she usually did, plus she lost an adult daughter to suicide (who struggled with depression and possibly other mental health issues) so she is very attuned. Frankly, I was feeling so low that I wasn't concerned with her seeing me in such a state and we're good enough friends that it didn't matter. She was a help in that she was there and I knew if I called (which I didn't), she would come running.Jeanninehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08899506698574749866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-9531758742748113532017-11-01T12:54:55.872-07:002017-11-01T12:54:55.872-07:00Wow, Frances, you have quite the following on your...Wow, Frances, you have quite the following on your blog. This post was beautifully written. I can't adequately express just how much it resonates with me. I have struggled with major depressive disorder for the majority of my life thus far, since I was about 8 years old. I believe it's largely a genetic thing, and when I am functional and rational, I realize that it's an illness, just like any physical one. I do, however, still struggle, on a very regular basis. I see a counsellor. I talk to friends about it after the fact. I take medication. I know all my tricks, as well: yoga, running, reading or watching things that I know will make me laugh, making appointments that I have to keep, etc. My depression and anxiety are perhaps more severe, as I have ventured into suicidal ideations on a frequent basis, but I think what lies beneath is the same. I have extreme difficulty reaching out to my loved ones, and friends that have expressed many times that they are available and willing to lend an ear or shoulder, and support me through my difficult moments. I have a couple of times recently, out of necessity, as I felt very much "on the brink" of losing myself, but on the whole, I still struggle through on my own. I wallow, I cry uncontrollably, I stare off into space blankly, I browse social media (which is often the worst thing I could possibly do when in this state, I realize), thinking about all the things I *could* do to make myself feel better. Every once in a while, though, whilst browsing through other people's highlight reels, I come across posts like yours. People, sometimes even strangers, being raw, emotional, and baring their vulnerabilities...and I realize (even though I already knew this to be true) that I truly am not alone, and it helps me to get up off my ass and do something--ANYTHING, to feel even marginally better. I might not call a friend at 3am, but I scroll through my facebook and instagram feeds in the wee hours of the morning sometimes, and I come across gems like these that help me to not feel so very alone. So, that would be a +1 for Social Media. It may bring us down sometimes by causing us to irrationally compare our lives with others' without any context, but it can also be an effective medium for those with mental health issues to connect, without the stress and anxiety of calling a friend at 3am. :)MakoFMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11375529579930208518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-54918414468179799072017-11-01T11:28:54.367-07:002017-11-01T11:28:54.367-07:00Childhood sets everything up: how we live, who we ...Childhood sets everything up: how we live, who we choose as mates, what we choose to do with our time, our self-talk: parents and childhood. So, yes, a (brilliant) therapist can help point us down the right roads of examination. But really, it's us who must do the work, internally and by ourselves after we leave the office. Those we might call at 3 AM may be of no use. The work is a singular, personal road, best done with an attitude of courage-to-look. The closer we pursue our unconscious underpinnings, the more threatening it will feel and that will indicate that we are on the right track.<br />Fortitude to go deeper into the whys is not for everyone. Plus, it hurts to uncover truths hidden for a lifetime. The conscious mind is busy 24/7 dismissing the light. We're all some kind of sick and accepting that as a starting point helps. Depression is anger gone underground. Any time it comes on, say instead "... wait, what am I really angry about?" The answers are always, consistently shocking and often unwelcome. Take an emotional ice pick to the incidents that set things off and see what's in there.<br />GiuliaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-25749396876427519562017-11-01T10:17:06.657-07:002017-11-01T10:17:06.657-07:00You're very welcome, Murphy, and thank you for...You're very welcome, Murphy, and thank you for joining in. So sorry to hear about the PTSD you're working through. <br />I'm thinking about that inability to hear your narrative, what that means about the way we compartmentalise, the fears we can't stand to have triggered. It's understandable, I know, but I can't help but wonder how it would serve us -- and our family and friends -- in a less protected environment (such as, for example, one that so many in those world must live in). You're so fortunate in having the two friends capable of being there and the trauma psychologist must be a wonderful resource. Take care.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-46461611399586694722017-11-01T10:10:53.084-07:002017-11-01T10:10:53.084-07:00I think the same, on reading this conversation, We...I think the same, on reading this conversation, Wendy: it belies the regular criticism of social media as superficial and fake. . . <br />Yes, that "stiff upper lip" -- as you say, for good or bad. . . I don't know how I'd manage without it, but I know it exacts its cost.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-4170728879337508942017-11-01T10:09:08.427-07:002017-11-01T10:09:08.427-07:00It's a conundrum, isn't it? There is somet...It's a conundrum, isn't it? There is something that's at least akin to shame, and I think we validate or fortify the social stigma when we keep our weakness to ourselves, and yet I know I somehow pride myself on coping, on not bothering others. . . Having a therapist seems a very good middle ground, and I'm glad you have one you feel safe and comforted with.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-26567597823136545102017-11-01T10:05:51.218-07:002017-11-01T10:05:51.218-07:00With Marie, I love your last sentence -- as well a...With Marie, I love your last sentence -- as well as the one about sensitivity being a gift -- sometimes a challenging, sometimes a painful one, but undoubtedly it's a gift. xomaterfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-35316978452901417342017-11-01T07:39:35.229-07:002017-11-01T07:39:35.229-07:00Thanks for this, Brenda. Your last two paragraphs ...Thanks for this, Brenda. Your last two paragraphs are especially useful -- as you can see through Dottoressa using your example to encourage Marie. And the point you make about the gift of asking for help -- that's powerful!materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-43466536830079489402017-11-01T07:36:57.155-07:002017-11-01T07:36:57.155-07:00I'm so sorry to hear this, Marie. You've g...I'm so sorry to hear this, Marie. You've gone through so much in the last couple of years that it's not surprising, but it must be so tough. Dottoressa's advice is very good, and Brenda's experience echoes my own couple of sessions with a psych. counsellor years ago. I never felt a need to follow-up, but just found that being able to -- safely -- lay out what was going on to another (sympathetic, if objective) ear was such a relief. As Dottoressa suggests, it really helps to put what's bothering you in perspective -- perhaps it is a big as you think and then you can decide what allies and help you need; or perhaps you see that it might be more manageable; or just as likely, something in between those two. Inside you're head, though, problems are too often Huge, especially if we feel isolated with them.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.com