tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post1164568667160456424..comments2023-10-11T04:09:53.564-07:00Comments on materfamilias writes: The Sisters Run Paris!materfamiliashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-8915746038223354102015-05-28T09:51:20.068-07:002015-05-28T09:51:20.068-07:00Marilyn, I love that analogy! Yes, the experiences...Marilyn, I love that analogy! Yes, the experiences and our behavior are so much more important than whether or not we are wearing the "right" clothes. After our first couple of visits to Paris, I realized that "not looking like a tourist" is missing the point. One's cover will be blown as soon as you whip out that camera and start snapping away. ;-) I now aspire to that zone I refer to as "stylish traveler," not as <i>soignée</i> and polished as (some of )the locals of course, but still appropriate, comfortable and <i>bien dans ma peau.</i>Susan Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16005855250089328310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-3173519626538173582015-05-27T12:07:38.752-07:002015-05-27T12:07:38.752-07:00You've touched on an elusive, but very real, s...You've touched on an elusive, but very real, sensation that can inhibit a sensitive traveller's delight in a new environment--that sense of self-consciousness when our normal rhythms and habits suddenly make us feel awkward and out-of-step with our surroundings. I suspect this feeling is what underlies many "what to wear" concerns; the hope that wearing the "right" outfit will smooth our awkwardness so we feel harmony instead of discordance. <br /><br />Your experience, though, is a good reminder that feeling in harmony is less about what is on the outside and more about what is inside. I don't see it as "owning" a place as much as it is about making the effort to be a good houseguest instead of an intrusion. To my mind the rules are much the same: be cooperative, adaptable, interested, respectful, and alert. Clean up after yourself and ask permission instead of assuming something is yours for the taking. Show appreciation and express gratitude for help and favours. Don't assume or argue, and be hesitant about expressing judgements and opinions. <br /><br /><br />Behaving like a houseguest, instead of a tourist or traveller, doesn't let me "own" the house, but it does increase the chances my hosts will enjoy my stay with them and want me back for a return visit. <br />Marilynnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-29793662495843998932015-05-27T10:35:00.433-07:002015-05-27T10:35:00.433-07:00You can count on me - I'll toast you and your ...You can count on me - I'll toast you and your blog!Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01024754794516584433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-25495041246475847082015-05-27T08:46:04.411-07:002015-05-27T08:46:04.411-07:00I am a dedicated walker and found Paris such a foo...I am a dedicated walker and found Paris such a foot friendly city. What you did is way more important that what you wore....love that fountain in the Luxembourg Gardens. <br />Saint Michel was a street that I wandered regularly as my hotel was just off it. <br />I saw lots of cute sneakers on women who wore them to navigate the uneven cobblestone streets and many were women of a certain age!hostess of the humble bungalowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06453827257671312902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-26081985086115239642015-05-27T08:45:02.007-07:002015-05-27T08:45:02.007-07:00Mary, I'm so pleased you came back to comment ...Mary, I'm so pleased you came back to comment again -- you've really sparked a lively discussion. So interesting. Honestly, I think my next post shows that I'm not as worried about What to Wear in Paris as it might seem here (and I've spent lots of time there over the past 10 years), but the topic seems to keep surfacing. And I used the word "impatience" partly, I think, because deep-down I feel a bit of that myself. I can only imagine how visiting China and Russia would create a much broader perspective (I haven't been, although my husband has). Thanks again for propelling this conversation.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-80572941939913745022015-05-27T08:26:13.013-07:002015-05-27T08:26:13.013-07:00You are correct re location but not re tone of imp...You are correct re location but not re tone of impatience. I am genuinely curious and interested. Have visited Paris and France many times and lived there for several months at one stage. I think because it's nearby and accessible it's not built up the same way in my head and certainly having visited I know the reality. Of course there is that certain unique glamour which the French have and we are not blind to it just maybe more realistic that it's not as widespread as some of the literature would have us believe. I do think distance is a factor too based on my own perceptions of China and Russia prior to visiting them many years ago (not so much fashion related). There is a pleasure in people watching in Paris or watching the evening passagiata in many Italian cities, a feast for the eyes which is unequalled elsewhere. Goodness this post has inspired a lot of comments hasn't it ? Regards MaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-74990095669403166272015-05-27T07:55:55.351-07:002015-05-27T07:55:55.351-07:00I always have a day, sometimes only an hour or two...I always have a day, sometimes only an hour or two, that I get that self-conscious thing. My husband says it generally happens when we're in the 1st or 2nd. Boulevard Hausmann is a culprit. . . And then I rally, as you do. I saw those brightly coloured sneakers a fair bit when I was there, and loved the way it signalled some individuality. Enjoy your visit -- walk and walk and walk, and then maybe you'll sit and have a glass of Rosé for me. . . materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-36704658180413914012015-05-27T07:52:41.896-07:002015-05-27T07:52:41.896-07:00Yes! This is exactly what I mean -- running was an...Yes! This is exactly what I mean -- running was an inept analogy in many ways, but it was the experience I had to build from. As I mentioned in my response to Georgia, I'd originally written another paragraph talking about this -- and I mentioned your time at the Sorbonne, post-retirement. But the post seemed in danger of losing coherence so I deleted. Like you, I'm more interested in the Parisian intellectual life, their interest in film and books and attending painting expositions with friends, discussing works with serious engagement. But the outfits are definitely worth studying as well. . . ;-)materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-66876587414568553712015-05-27T07:49:22.974-07:002015-05-27T07:49:22.974-07:00I noticed a big increase, as I said, in the dedica...I noticed a big increase, as I said, in the dedicated exercise, but so far haven't seen those trekking poles (we get them quite a bit here among walking groups). I do like walking as well, as you know, but it was fun to run with my sister and show her a different version of the city than tourists often see. Paris has so many faces. . . materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-40034881207848898962015-05-27T07:45:20.177-07:002015-05-27T07:45:20.177-07:00Interesting perspective -- and yes, I find London ...Interesting perspective -- and yes, I find London very stylish but more willing to be playful, colourful, experimental, even goofy and often eccentric. There are certain areas in that city (and in any) that intimidate a bit, but that has to do with class more than anything else. I think you and your daughter are onto something -- the first time I visited a young friend in Paris (she came up for the weekend from Marseillie, where she's been teaching) I was close to shocked by her transformation in less than a year from her overalls-wearing grad-school self.<br />I do spend a fair bit of time in Bordeaux and I'm much more relaxed there, but honestly, I'm pretty relaxed about being myself in Paris now. . .Too funny, your London Marathon (and kudos on having run that!) anecdote. . .materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-24497051600070436342015-05-27T07:37:58.353-07:002015-05-27T07:37:58.353-07:00Interesting post! I'm actually in Paris right ...Interesting post! I'm actually in Paris right now: I'm not a runner (old foot injury), but walk at least 4 or 5 miles every day when here. I'm mostly dressing to fit in, wearing jeans, black pants, navy, black or white tops - in other words, pretty much the same stuff I wear at home. But I'm also wearing my brightly colored sneakers, due to aforesaid old foot injury plus aforesaid 4 mile per day minimum. I caught myself feeling un peu self-conscious, and then I thought, really? So what if I'm showing a bit of originality in my footwear - I'm not being disrespectful or inappropriate. Giving myself permission to just be myself was a relief. And yes, in case you can't already tell, I have been one of those previously hypnotized by the mystique of the perfect Parisienne. But really, the truth is that some people are more chic, others less so. There's room for everyone...Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01024754794516584433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-45828365564570576592015-05-27T06:16:15.362-07:002015-05-27T06:16:15.362-07:00To "claim" a destination, I find that I ...To "claim" a destination, I find that I must take my time to enjoy the quotidian activities like grocery shopping, getting my hair cut, taking a class (language or drop in yoga), attending a church service or getting a temporary library card. Retirement has afforded me the time and (if I manage well) the resources to live my life (temporarily) in different cities. Walking or running are definitely activities that can be pursued anywhere but the irregular pavement in some countries could be dangerous.<br />I am finding myself a bit more removed from the "what I wore" phase of my life and that is unusual for me. The most "Parisian" woman, she taught at the Sorbonne and lives in a Haussmann building, that I ever met probably showed far less concern for her clothing than for her awareness of what "art film" was playing or where we could find a new exposition on la vie romantique. It sounds as if you and your sister experienced Paris as the healthy, vital women that you are.Madame Là-bashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16703782237948233124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-54524341556210789772015-05-27T05:42:30.709-07:002015-05-27T05:42:30.709-07:00When in Paris in April, I saw runners and cyclists...When in Paris in April, I saw runners and cyclists but also serious walkers, some using those trekking poles, often mature women in pairs. Slowing down a bit allows you to talk and (perhaps) take in more of the scenery. (And at this point it's all my knees will withstand, too.) <br /><br />re "claiming a city", agree a comprehensive bus or car tour exposes the first-timer to all the "musts' but really being there means slowing down and enjoying the small glimpses. <br /><br />What you and your sister did demonstrates the difference between being a visitor and being a tourist.Duchessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09986153653120526776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-88513230016801207552015-05-27T00:12:14.218-07:002015-05-27T00:12:14.218-07:00I am enjoying reading all the comments - and the t...I am enjoying reading all the comments - and the tangents. I am a European (though, as a Brit, this may not be for much longer should the present government get its way...) and have been able to visit Europe many times due to the joys of geographical positioning. The Paris mystique (French word!) sits rather lightly with us to be frank, probably because London is a very stylish city and with a much less reverent attitude to being consciously chic (French again...). My experience of buying clothes in France is that our high street is very much better in terms of price and selection and we have a greater tendency to individuality. Having said that, my daughter has just returned from living in Nantes (excellent place) and looks decidedly different. It is about self-respect in France, not about being fashionable. Also: try visiting other French cities, further away from Paris. You really won't feel any qualms in Bayonne, let me assure you. Very nice place - but stylish? Non. Bottome line - I have never worried about what people think when I go running since a London Marathon when a fat bystander, shoving a Big Mac down their ravening maw, suggested I should speed up a bit...anniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09784336429060492455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-11037212662363733342015-05-26T22:29:12.369-07:002015-05-26T22:29:12.369-07:00Yes! Absolutely agree -- any non-touristy activity...Yes! Absolutely agree -- any non-touristy activity. In fact, I had a paragraph suggesting all kinds of other options, but then I second-guessed myself and took it out. Even just sitting by yourself contentedly at a cafe, people-watching while nursing a glass of wine or a beer -- it's just digging back down to your sense of self and claiming a place.<br />Your second point made me laugh out loud! Just remember, I'm the (much) older sister. . . and she did approach with some caution. . . (but seriously, that technical merino is very cool stuff!)materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-87464713797804096842015-05-26T17:18:46.556-07:002015-05-26T17:18:46.556-07:00I'm not a runner (but am a walker), have never...I'm not a runner (but am a walker), have never been to Paris (but plan to go in the fall); however!! re: claiming a place in a city not your own, I am with you all the way. An early morning walk works, too, when the day is fresh and new and there are only a few people about to say 'Good Morning'. Any non-touristy type of activity is good...buying groceries, taking a book to a park (or even better, a local newspaper)!<br /><br />I am curious about something...how did you convince your sister to smell the bra? She must be a trusting soul!!Georgiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10305981957174091874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-3692643783019763592015-05-26T15:24:07.952-07:002015-05-26T15:24:07.952-07:00Back to add, Mary, that I've noted this impati...Back to add, Mary, that I've noted this impatience in the past when I or other (mostly North American) bloggers have addressed the whole What to Wear in Paris issue. Do you mind saying what European/British city you live in/near? Or am I wrong in assuming you're on that side of the pond? Would you say that there is no sense at all among your peers that there's something about Paris. . . . Just curious.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-64930294862129935102015-05-26T15:01:13.991-07:002015-05-26T15:01:13.991-07:00Thanks for your thoughts, Mary. I don't see yo...Thanks for your thoughts, Mary. I don't see your comment as going off on a tangent at all. In fact, it's rather what I was trying to address here. I do think there's entirely too much preoccupation about "What to Wear in Paris" in a city that I don't think necessarily demands it. If I appear "overly concerned" by what should be worn in Paris, I'd say part of that is rhetorical, for the purpose of this post -- I packed two days before, taking about as much time and energy as I would for any one-week, carry-on-only packing. But I don't think one can completely ignore that Paris is a centre of style and fashion and luxury goods nor that it has a history and culture that complicates its response to visible displays of wealth, consumption, luxury, behaviour codes, etc. Nor the kind of "politesse" in a society with a very clear sense of "comme il faut" that I think someone sensitive can feel judged by. . . and being away from home can often render one more sensitive. . . Overall, I'd say we're rather agreeing, on the whole, although I would say that I feel much more self-conscious of my dress in many parts of Paris than I generally do in, say London, or have in Lisbon, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Rome, etc., etc. . . . materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-91055491677644434132015-05-26T14:27:22.671-07:002015-05-26T14:27:22.671-07:00My comment above looks very much like going off on...My comment above looks very much like going off on a tangent. Should have qualified by saying while I enjoyed this post, am not a runner myself. However was struck by how after many visits to Paris you still seem overly concerned by what 'should' be worn, something I have noted seems to obsess other bloggers in relation to visiting Paris as opposed to other places. MaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-10897631472520454292015-05-26T14:20:14.456-07:002015-05-26T14:20:14.456-07:00I find this whole phenomenon of obsessing with wha...I find this whole phenomenon of obsessing with what to wear in Paris curious and wonder if it particularly relates to non Europeans. So many myths (perpetrated by a body of literature purporting to help us all to become like French women) have built up around the chic french femmes and yes there are many chic women to be seen who have a certain je ne sais quoi but equally there are many very ordinary looking people going about their daily business. I find it interesting that you refer to your sense of what should be worn in Paris. Surely one should simply wear what is appropriate to the activity and one's own style. Running gear when running . Lovely photos and I'm sure running gives you an interesting perspective. What is your take on the myth and reality of Parisienne chic? MaryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-30096531137685320922015-05-26T09:51:20.757-07:002015-05-26T09:51:20.757-07:00Johanna, I so appreciate you taking the time to le...Johanna, I so appreciate you taking the time to let me know my posts engage you. It's tough sometimes, just throwing the words out into the universe! ;-)<br />Ceri: So glad you take this the way I meant it. Walking is the way I have generally learned a new city and will continue to be my main approach as it's probably more sustainable. You've captured my main points succinctly, though, re the relation between perceived dress codes and the city that has such a mystique about Style and Fashion. Oh, and I love being called 'lithe' -- never, ever happens, and I'll take it, even at 5'3" and never quite able to coax the scales below 130. . . or a higher number, but we don't need to be too honest, do we?<br />Lorrie, YES! Oh, you guys are all so smart. That is the most important takeaway: What I Do! Of course, I do it wearing clothes and I find those interesting, but I want to keep the priorities straight, no matter where I am. Some places exert more pressure on the relationship than others. . . Isn't it interesting how the City changes with the companion. Obvious enough, I guess, but still interesting.materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-65165355702204957802015-05-26T09:45:29.846-07:002015-05-26T09:45:29.846-07:00After I posted this, quite honestly, I debated goi...After I posted this, quite honestly, I debated going back and deleting the whole thing. I had something significant to me that I wanted to express, but wasn't sure I'd got anywhere near it. And feared I might risk offending non-runners. But you get me. You really get me! Thank you so much for these early and oh-so-encouraging comments.<br />Patricia: running in Cape Breton would be a dream. I've never got there, nor to Newfoundland, although my husband's spent considerable time there for work. I'm very envious. <br />As for the AC restrictions. I think I would have been okay this last trip -- it's 10kg for the carry-on case and 10 for a Personal Item which would have been my backpack. I don't want to be hefting more than this onto a train or up hotel stairs anyway. If they're going to enforce, I just hope they do it fairly.<br />Annie, Yes! I love the invisibility factor. I think it's often underrated when people talk about urban travel, but I recognized it when I was in London at 14 (from a Canadian small city where I went to a very small school). Love to hear how your London run goes . . . and you're right. No sense comparing to what we used to do. We're still doing something and should holler a few Bravas at ourselves just for that!<br />materfamiliashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16062766947897513369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-27904822200138436812015-05-26T09:34:16.561-07:002015-05-26T09:34:16.561-07:00Lots to digest here. As a non-runner but dedicated...Lots to digest here. As a non-runner but dedicated walker, I nod in agreement at much of what you've said. <br />Going to Paris with my sister and mother was very different than with my husband. With the former I was up early and out for a long morning stroll, both for exercise and solitude. <br />The most important takeaway from this post - What I Do is much more important than What I Wear. Lorriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03653026442945027184noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-89779675486202997592015-05-26T08:29:22.460-07:002015-05-26T08:29:22.460-07:00What a very interesting post. I really enjoyed rea...What a very interesting post. I really enjoyed reading it and, yet again, you inspire me to take up running. (I know I want to). <br /><br />First, as one who has spent a lot of time walking around cities - and always opts to do so if at all possible - I absolutely agree that seeing the place on foot is the best way to do it. We can agree to differ on the speed at which our feet carry us.<br /><br />Second, Paris is a cosmopolitan city and the people on the streets there - Parisians or etrangers - look pretty much like those you find anywhere. Some super chic, some not - so no one is going to bat an eyelid at what we wear. OK maybe there is a dress code if you are off to the Elysee Palace but my invitation always get lost in the post, so I just take what makes me happy.<br /><br />Third - re the running gear. In an American transit lounge I saw that one passenger was in full on sportskit (the real stuff not some sports inspired loungewear). I thought she looked the most appropriately dressed of all the travellers as she was fully equipped to take on heat, cold, inadequate seating etc and she looked pretty good in it - being lithe and fit like you. Wonder why it is more usually we see the least athletic looking going for this option rather than the most?Cerinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4904021173466473381.post-37292430582559151832015-05-26T08:09:06.768-07:002015-05-26T08:09:06.768-07:00Good Morning Frances- I do so enjoy reading your p...Good Morning Frances- I do so enjoy reading your posts and this one about travelling with your sister resonates with me! keep up the good work and keep writing and posting- it makes my day :)!Dr. Bishophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013699384331959707noreply@blogger.com